PREVIEW — Synthos Deep Dive v2 template · not published · founder review · 2026-07-03
BKV BKV
Energy · Oil & Gas Exploration & Production · Synthos Deep Dive · 2026-07-03
$27.05
Watch
Risk 7Growth 5Exponential 4Fair value $31 $19–$40
The 20-second read
What it does
BKV Corporation (NYSE: BKV) spans the natural gas and NGL value chain: it acquires, develops and manages energy-producing assets and provides midstream services (gathering, processing, transportation) for its own production. Founded 2015, IPO 2024-09-26; headquartered in Denver, CO, with offices in Tunkhannock, PA and Fort Worth, TX; CEO Christopher Kalnin; only 366 employees — a lean …
Where it stands
$27.05 · Watch · fair value ~$31 (+15% vs price) · Risk 7/10, Growth 5/10
Where it's going
BKV is a Barnett-gas grower outspending its cash flow to scale into the power-demand story — stay on watch; it gets interesting below ~$24 (≈ tangible book, ~11.5× 2027E EPS), and a sustained gas-price slump colliding with the debt-and-equity-funded outspend is what breaks it.
4/10 · Low-moderate — a one-time 2026 step-change (+78%E), then consensus decelerates to ~5–14%/yr; optionality is real but unquantified
Technicals
Flat/neutral — $27.05 pinched between the 50-DMA ($27.50) and 200-DMA ($26.94); RSI 68.6 (warm); −15.9% off the 52-wk high; lagging SPY on every window
Conviction
Low — zero KB claims, zero panel voices; the only external signal is a unanimous but thin street (8 Buys)
Position sizing
None yet — Watch. If triggered near ~$24, starter ≤1% in the satellite sleeve
Next catalyst
2026-08-11 Q2 2026 earnings (Street EPS $0.29, rev ~$360M) — note EPS missed the last two prints
Single biggest risk
Natural-gas price weakness while capex runs ~48% of revenue and net-debt/EBITDA (1.59× and rising) is funding the growth
One-line thesis. BKV is a Denver-based natural-gas producer (Barnett-dominant Texas + Marcellus Pennsylvania) that is growing revenue very fast — +48% in 2025, +68% YoY in Q1 2026, consensus +78% for 2026 — and screens cheap at 6.5× EV/EBITDA and 1.25× book; but the growth is bought with capex that exceeds operating cash flow (TTM FCF yield −6.7%), funded by rising debt and a share count up ~20% in a year, and the whole P&L rides the gas price — so this is a Watch, not a buy, until price or the funding math improves.
◆ Synthos call — WatchBKV is a Barnett-gas grower outspending its cash flow to scale into the power-demand story — stay on watch; it gets interesting below ~$24 (≈ tangible book, ~11.5× 2027E EPS), and a sustained gas-price slump colliding with the debt-and-equity-funded outspend is what breaks it.
Downside Risk (lower = safer)
7/10 · High
Commodity gas price is the whole P&L, FCF is negative (capex ~48% of TTM revenue), net-debt/EBITDA 1.59× and rising, share count +20% in a year, and it is a 366-employee $3.0B small cap under Banpu's umbrella — beta 1.02 and 1.25× book are the only cushions.
Growth Quality
5/10 · Moderate
Revenue +48% in 2025 and +68% YoY in Q1 2026 with consensus +78% for 2026, but the growth is acquisition- and gas-price-driven, ROIC ~4%, FCF is negative, and trailing EPS is flattered by derivative gains.
Exponential Potential
4/10 · Moderate
The 2026 step-change is real but inorganic; consensus decelerates to ~5–14%/yr by 2028–30. Power-demand/CCUS optionality exists but is unquantified in this data — a cyclical grower, not an exponential.
What do the 5 tiers mean? (Core · Tactical · Watch · Hold · Avoid)
Buy — CoreOwn it as a foundation — start or add now, size it for years, let dips be gifts.
Buy — TacticalGood price + confirmed trend + a defined exit — buy the setup, not a marriage.
WatchWe want the business, just not at this price/setup — act only when the listed trigger hits.
HoldFine to keep if you own it — no reason to buy more; new money does better elsewhere.
AvoidDon't own it — the problem is the business or the expectations, so a cheaper price won't fix it.
In plain English
BKV drills for and sells natural gas, mostly from the Barnett Shale around Fort Worth, Texas, with a smaller position in Pennsylvania. It also runs some pipelines and processing for its own gas. It's a young public company (IPO September 2024) that grew out of the Thai energy group Banpu, which still stands behind it.
The appeal is simple: natural gas demand is rising (power plants, data centers, LNG exports), BKV's revenue is growing very fast, and the stock looks cheap on most yardsticks — you pay about 8 times last year's profit and just 1.25 times the company's book value. Wall Street's few analysts who cover it all say Buy.
The catch is equally simple: BKV spends more cash than it makes. Last year it spent about $300M on drilling and deals while generating $243M from operations, and it filled the gap by borrowing and issuing new shares — your ownership got diluted about 20% in a year. And because it sells a commodity, its profits swing with the gas price, which BKV cannot control.
Here's what our three scores mean in everyday terms:
Downside Risk 7/10 (fairly high). Modest debt so far and a cheap valuation help, but a small commodity company that outspends its cash flow can get hurt fast if gas prices fall.
Growth Quality 5/10 (middling). The growth is real but bought — acquisitions and gas prices, not a compounding machine. Returns on invested money are low (~4%).
Exponential Potential 4/10 (low-moderate). After the big 2026 jump, growth is expected to slow to single/low-double digits. The "gas-to-power for data centers" angle could change that, but nothing in the numbers proves it yet.
The one big worry: a falling gas price while the company is mid-expansion — revenue would drop, the drilling budget wouldn't, and the debt and dilution needed to bridge the gap would compound the damage.
Solid = price · dashed = 50-day average · dotted = 200-day average · amber = 52-week high/low. Price above both averages is an uptrend.
Bollinger Bands 20-day average ± 2 standard deviations
The shaded band widens when the stock gets more volatile. Riding the upper edge = strong momentum (sometimes stretched); the lower edge = weak / potentially oversold.
Blue crossing above amber (bars flip green) = momentum turning up; below (bars red) = turning down. Bar height = the size of that gap.
Relative performance vs S&P 500 & its sector (XLE (sector)), set to 100 a year ago
Solid = BKV · dashed = S&P 500 · dotted = XLE (sector). A rising line means it is beating that benchmark — the sector line shows whether it is a leader or laggard within its own group.
Darker bars = actual results, brighter = analyst estimates. Taller bars to the right = expected growth.
Key stats an RIA wants
Price$27.05
Market cap$3B
P/E trailing9×
P/E FY26E / FY27E16× / 13×
EV / Sales3.8×
EV / EBITDA6.5×
Gross margin47.2%
Net margin28.9%
Dividend yield0.00%
Beta1.0213249
52-wk range$20 – $32
RSI(14)69
50 / 200-DMA$28 / $27
12-mo return+18% (SPY +21%)
Street target$34 ($32–$35)
Analyst grades8 Buy · 0 Hold · 0 Sell
FMP ratingB+
Next earnings2026-08-05
What the experts actually said 0 traceable claims on BKV · showing the highest-conviction voices
Every claim reconciles to a real claim_id in the Synthos knowledge base — this is the evidence the verdict is built on, not vibes. Management (the company itself) is shown but half-weighted; one cautionary voice is included on purpose.
1. What it is
BKV Corporation (NYSE: BKV) spans the natural gas and NGL value chain: it acquires, develops and manages energy-producing assets and provides midstream services (gathering, processing, transportation) for its own production. Founded 2015, IPO 2024-09-26; headquartered in Denver, CO, with offices in Tunkhannock, PA and Fort Worth, TX; CEO Christopher Kalnin; only 366 employees — a lean, asset-heavy operator. It operates as an affiliate under Banpu North America (the Thai energy group), a control/overhang fact worth keeping in view. Fiscal year ends December.
Revenue mix (FY2025, from filings):
By product: Natural gas, NGL and oil $857.6M of $895.6M total (~96%) · Marketing $12.3M · Other $11.7M · Natural gas midstream $10.5M · Related-party $1.8M. This is a nearly pure upstream gas producer — the midstream line is small.
By geography (state):Texas $826.1M (92%) — the Barnett Shale position — and Pennsylvania $67.7M (8%) (Marcellus). Highly concentrated in one basin.
Qualitative context, not in this data pull: BKV's stated strategy also includes power generation (a JV serving Texas power demand) and carbon capture (CCUS) — the "closed-loop" gas-to-power angle often cited in the datacenter-power theme. None of those segments appear as revenue lines in the filed data above, so we treat them as optionality, not earnings.
2. The expert thesis (traceable)
No expert-panel coverage — this note is fundamentals-driven. A search of the Synthos KB returns zero claims on BKV from any tracked voice. There is no conviction pool to weigh, no skill-weighted bull or bear to cite, and kb_breadth/kb_claim_count are honestly 0.
What external signal exists is thin: 8 analyst Buys, 0 Holds, 0 Sells, with a consensus target of $33.67 in an unusually tight $32–$35 band — but the estimate table shows only 1–5 analysts per fiscal year, so treat that unanimity as a small-sample artifact, not deep coverage. The bear case in §3 is therefore built entirely from the fundamentals and technicals, and the conviction rating is Low by construction.
3. Synthos scores & the Bull / Base / Bear cases
The one-glance judgment — three scores, 0–10, each anchored to real metrics:
Score
0–10
The read
Downside Risk(lower = safer)
7 · High
Beta 1.02 and 1.25× book are the cushions. Against them: single-commodity exposure (gas ~96% of revenue), TTM FCF yield −6.7% (capex ~48% of revenue), net-debt/EBITDA 1.59× and climbing (Q1 2026 interest expense $27.1M vs $5.1M a year ago), ~20% share dilution in twelve months, a $3.0B cap with 1–5 analysts, and Banpu-affiliate governance. Small commodity caps that outspend cash flow rarely score below 7.
Growth Quality
5 · Middling
Revenue +48% (2025), +68% YoY (Q1 2026), consensus +78% (2026E) — genuinely fast. But it is acquisition- and price-driven: ROIC ~4.0%, ROE 15.5% flattered by derivative gains, 2020–2024 includes two loss years, and FCF is negative. Income quality is fine (0.98) — the issue is what the income depends on, not the accounting.
Exponential Potential
4 · Low-moderate
The 2026E +78% step is inorganic; the estimate curve then decelerates — +4.7% (2027E), +13.8% (2028E), +13.4% (2029E), +5.3% (2030E). Power/CCUS optionality could re-rate the curve but is invisible in the filed numbers. A cyclical grower, not an exponential.
The three cases (our own scenario model — assumptions shown; each target is a ~12–18-month fair value). We deliberately do not attach probabilities: the base case is the expected path; the cases bound the range.
Case
Key assumptions
Fair value
Bull
Gas demand (power/LNG) tightens the strip; 2028E EBITDA lands near the $669M high case; ~8× EV/EBITDA on ~$1.0B net debt, or ~10.5× on 2030E EPS $3.83 — the outspend converts into durable production.
~$40 (+48%)
Base(our anchor)
Consensus roughly hits — 2027E EPS ~$2.07, 2028E ~$2.55; a commodity grower earns ~12× 2028E EPS (≈ 8× 2027E EBITDA of ~$501M net of ~$0.96B implied net debt), slightly below the street's $33.67.
~$31 (+15%)
Bear
Gas price slumps mid-expansion; 2027E EBITDA hits the $407M low case, capex gets cut late, leverage rises; the stock reverts toward ~0.85× tangible book ($22.47/sh). EBITDA-multiple math can produce worse.
~$19 (−30%)
Synthos fair value = the base case, ~$31 (+15%), full honest range $19–$40. Our base sits just under the street's $33.67 — the discount is deliberate: consensus here is 1–5 analysts, the last two EPS prints missed, and negative FCF deserves a haircut to a target set by so few hands. A +15% base on a commodity name is not enough edge to buy; it is enough to watch. This is a tracked call — the Forecaster Scorecard grades it once it matures.
4. Exponential Potential
Synthos separates compounders from exponentials (accelerating, multi-baggers-from-here). BKV is neither yet — it is a cyclical grower with one big inorganic step:
Forward growth: 2026E revenue $1.59B (+78%) off 2025's $896M — consistent with Q1 2026 already annualizing near $1.5B — then $1.67B (2027E), $1.90B (2028E), $2.15B (2029E), $2.27B (2030E). EPS: $1.66 → $2.07 → $2.55 → $2.75 → $3.83.
Acceleration (the 2nd derivative) is negative after 2026: +78% → +4.7% → +13.8% → +13.4% → +5.3%. The step-change is a level shift (acquired volumes + price), not a compounding curve. That is the opposite of what earns a high exponential score.
Room to run: at $2.96B cap, small enough to multiply — the constraint is not size but the funding model: TTM capex is 1.68× operating cash flow, so growth consumes external capital (2025: +$319M net debt issuance, +$171M stock issuance).
The optionality: gas-to-power for datacenter demand and CCUS could turn this into a structural story. Honestly: nothing in this data pull quantifies it — no power segment revenue, no contracted-capacity figures. We score what we can see.
Exponential Potential: Low-moderate (4/10). Re-scoreable upward if power/CCUS revenue actually shows up in the segment data.
Revenue: FY2025 $895.6M, +48.2% (FY2024 $604.5M, which was −18.2% on FY2023 $739.3M). The longer history is pure commodity: $122.5M (2020) → $889.5M (2021) → $1.66B (2022 gas spike) → $739M → $605M → $896M. This line does not compound; it oscillates.
Quarterly trajectory: Q1 2025 $225.8M → Q2 $204.3M → Q3 $197.1M → Q4 $241.1M → Q1 2026 $379.7M (+68.2% YoY) — a genuine step up (acquired volumes + pricing), with cost of revenue also jumping to $290.2M (Q1 gross margin compressed to ~23.6% vs ~82% in Q1 2025's mix — the revenue mix/pass-through changed materially with the step-up).
Profitability: FY2025 net income $173.1M / diluted EPS $1.95 vs a −$142.9M loss in 2024. TTM net margin 28.9%, EBITDA margin 59.2% — but note FY2025 operating income was only $159.3M on EBIT of $253.1M, and quarterly "total other income" swings (Q3 2025 +$90.3M, Q4 +$58.6M, Q1 2026 +$30.4M) show derivative/hedge gains doing heavy lifting in the net line. Income-quality ratio 0.98 says cash roughly backs the accounting — the fragility is commodity dependence, not accruals.
Cash flow — the crux: FY2025 operating CF $242.7M, capex −$300.2M → FCF −$57.5M; TTM FCF yield −6.7%, capex/OCF 1.68×, capex ~48% of TTM revenue. The gap was funded with $319.1M net debt issuance + $170.6M stock issuance in 2025. No dividend, no buyback.
Balance sheet: FY2025 cash $199.4M, total debt $486.8M, net debt $287.4M — but the TTM enterprise value ($3.92B vs $2.96B cap) implies net debt has since risen to ~$962M (net-debt/EBITDA 1.59×), consistent with Q1 2026 interest expense of $27.1M vs $5.1M a year earlier. Leverage is being built in real time. Equity $2.04B; tangible BVPS $22.47 (goodwill/intangibles are a negligible 0.4% of assets — the book value is real PP&E). Current ratio 1.31.
Dilution: weighted diluted shares 84.7M (Q1 2025) → 102.3M (Q1 2026), ~+20% in a year.
6. Valuation — priced in or room?
BKV screens cheap on nearly every trailing yardstick: 8.2× trailing EPS, 6.5× EV/EBITDA, 3.8× EV/sales, 1.25× book (1.20× tangible), 10.7% earnings yield; FMP's letter rating is B+ (overall 3/5; DCF score 4/5, ROA 5/5 — dragged by D/E 1/5). But two honesty checks cut the discount down:
1. The trailing P/E is flattered — TTM net income (~$296M, $2.90/sh) leans on derivative gains; the Street's forward curve is the better lens: ~16.3× 2026E ($1.66) → 13.1× 2027E ($2.07) → 10.6× 2028E ($2.55) → 7.1× 2030E ($3.83). Cheap if estimates hit — and the last two quarterly EPS prints missed ($0.22 vs $0.36 est; $0.29 vs $0.37 est), even as revenue beat big both times.
2. Negative FCF voids the yield argument — P/FCF is −14.9× (meaningless), FCF yield −6.7%. You are being paid nothing in cash while waiting; the "cheapness" is all in the equity multiple of a company consuming capital.
Street targets (context): consensus $33.67, high $35 / low $32, median $34 — a tight band from very few analysts (1–5 per year in the estimate table). Our base ($31) lands just below it. Verdict on valuation: modestly undervalued, not table-poundingly cheap once the funding math and commodity torque are priced.
7. Technicals (from the tech block)
Trend: trendless. $27.05 sits just below the 50-DMA ($27.50) and just above the 200-DMA ($26.94) — the two averages are nearly on top of each other, a coiled/flat structure, not a trend.
Location:−15.9% off the 52-week high ($32.16) (also the max drawdown from peak) and +37.4% off the 52-week low ($19.68). Mid-range.
Momentum: RSI(14) 68.6 — warm, brushing the overbought line despite a flat tape; MACD −0.01 (dead flat). Mixed signals typical of a range.
Relative strength (the tell):12-mo +17.5% vs SPY +21.1% and QQQ +31.2%; 3-mo −2.1% vs SPY +14.6% / QQQ +23.6%; 6-mo −0.4% vs SPY +10.2%. BKV is a laggard on every window — for a momentum-screen surfaced name, the relative tape is already fading.
Read: neutral-to-soft. Nothing here argues for chasing; a break below the 200-DMA (~$26.9) opens the range floor, and the ~$24 area (≈ tangible-book support, our trigger) is where price and value meet.
8. Moat & competitive position
Commodity gas producers do not have moats in the classic sense — they have cost position, asset life, and balance sheets. BKV's differentiators: a dominant, consolidated Barnett Shale position (92% of revenue from Texas — mature, low-decline, shallow-decline gas near Gulf Coast demand and LNG corridors), integrated owned midstream for its own molecules, and the Banpu relationship. Against that: no pricing power whatsoever, ROIC ~4.0% (below any reasonable cost of capital), and scale far below the gas majors.
Peer set (FMP-supplied, market cap): Baytex $2.7B, Calumet $3.2B, Crescent Energy $3.0B, Cosan $3.0B, DHT $2.8B, Genesis Energy $1.7B, Northern Oil & Gas $1.9B, SM Energy $6.3B, Teekay Tankers $2.4B, TORM $2.9B. Data caveat: this is a size-matched energy grab-bag including crude E&Ps and tanker owners — the relevant comps (pure gas E&Ps: EQT, Range, Comstock, Gulfport) are absent. Judge BKV against the gas cohort, not this list.
9. Management, capital allocation & guidance
Capital allocation: all-in on growth — FY2025 capex $300.2M (vs $100.9M in 2024) plus $264.7M of other investing outflows, funded by $319M net new debt and $171M new equity. No dividend, no buyback. This is a build-now, harvest-later model; the discipline question is whether returns on that capital (currently ~4% ROIC) rise before the funding window closes.
Insider activity: nothing discretionary in the file — the 2026-06-30 Form 4s are routine equity awards (CEO Kalnin +829 sh, CFO Tameron +920, CCO Seimon +920, CDO Ngo +400, CAO Turcotte +655, priced at $23.08) and 2026-06-12 director grants. No open-market buys and no sells — no tell either way. CEO Kalnin holds ~1.20M shares (~$32M at market), decent skin in the game for a $3B company.
Governance note: BKV operates as an affiliate under Banpu North America — a strategic parent can be a funding backstop and a minority-holder overhang. Flagged, not scored.
Guidance: no management-guidance claims in our KB and no guidance fields in this data pull — we cannot quote a company outlook honestly, so we don't.
10. Catalysts & what to watch
Next earnings: 2026-08-11 (Q2 2026; Street EPS $0.29, revenue ~$360M). The pattern to break: two straight EPS misses on big revenue beats — cost structure and hedging, not demand, are the swing.
FCF inflection: the single most important line. Watch capex vs operating CF each quarter — the thesis upgrade trigger is capex/OCF falling toward 1.0×.
Leverage path: net-debt/EBITDA is 1.59× and was ~0.7× at year-end — another leg up without an EBITDA step would start to bite (interest expense already $27.1M/quarter).
Power/CCUS becoming visible: any filed segment revenue from power generation or carbon capture would force a re-score of Exponential Potential (currently 4/10 on filed data only).
Natural-gas strip: the exogenous driver of everything above.
Thesis tripwires (what would change the call): a third consecutive EPS miss; net-debt/EBITDA through ~2.5×; further equity issuance below ~1.2× book; or a close below ~$24 (which flips this from Watch to actionable — if the tripwires above haven't fired).
11. Key risks
Commodity price (the dominant risk): ~96% of revenue is natural gas/NGL/oil; the 2020–2024 history ($123M → $1.66B → $605M revenue) shows exactly how violently this P&L swings with the strip.
Funding/outspend risk: FCF −$57.5M in 2025 and −6.7% TTM yield while capex runs ~48% of revenue — a downturn mid-expansion forces the bad menu: cut growth, add debt, or dilute (again).
Dilution: share count +20% in twelve months; the equity is being used as a funding currency.
Leverage build: implied net debt roughly tripled from year-end ($287M filed → ~$962M TTM-implied); interest expense up 5× YoY.
Basin concentration: 92% Texas/Barnett — one basin, one regulatory regime, one weather system.
Thin coverage / small float dynamics: 1–5 analysts, ~$23M/day average dollar volume ($27 × ~857K shares) — exits are not free in a stress tape.
Estimate fragility: out-year consensus (2029–30) rests on a single analyst; the 2030E EPS of $3.83 underpinning the cheap 7.1× forward multiple is one person's model.
Parent-company overhang: Banpu affiliation cuts both ways (backstop vs control).
12. Verdict, position sizing & monitoring
Watch. BKV has the raw ingredients of a value-with-a-story name — +48% 2025 revenue growth stepping to +78%E in 2026, 6.5× EV/EBITDA, 1.25× real (tangible) book, a unanimous if thin street at $33.67, and live optionality on the gas-to-power theme. But the house rules for a screen-surfaced small cap are conservative, and BKV earns that conservatism honestly: no expert-panel coverage, negative free cash flow with capex at ~48% of revenue, leverage and share count both rising fast, two straight EPS misses, and a relative-strength tape that lags the market on every window. A +15% gap to our base case is not enough edge to underwrite a single-commodity balance-sheet-consuming grower.
Sizing:none today. If price reaches the ~$24 trigger (≈1.07× tangible book, ~11.6× 2027E EPS) without the §10 tripwires firing, a starter ≤1% satellite position is the right size for a $3B, thinly-covered commodity name.
Monitoring: re-underwrite at each print (next 2026-08-11); the FCF and leverage lines outrank the EPS line. This verdict is logged as a tracked Synthos call as of 2026-07-06 at $27.05.
Single biggest risk: a gas-price slump landing mid-expansion — falling revenue meeting a fixed drilling budget, bridged by more debt and more dilution.
Provenance & disclosures
Traceability:0 KB claims, 0 panel voices — a KB search for BKV returns nothing, so no expert conviction is cited anywhere in this note and kb_net_conviction is null rather than invented. This dive is fundamentals-driven by honest necessity, per house standard for screen-surfaced names.
Data as-of: fundamentals 2026-03-31 (Q1 2026, filed 2026-05-07) · estimates & prices 2026-07-06 (FMP) · no KB claims. Forward figures are analyst consensus (FMP) from a very small analyst base (1–5 per year; single analyst in 2029–30) — labeled as estimates and haircut accordingly.
Data discrepancy flagged: FMP's earnings calendar reports Q1 2026 revenue of $432.8M vs the income statement's $379.7M (different revenue basis in the calendar feed); this note uses the filed income-statement figure. The 52-week high/low also differ slightly between the quote feed ($32.81/$19.56) and the technicals block ($32.16/$19.68, window-dependent); the technicals section uses the tech block consistently.
Earnings-quality caveat: trailing EPS ($2.90 TTM) is flattered by derivative/hedge gains booked in other income (Q3 2025 +$90.3M, Q4 +$58.6M, Q1 2026 +$30.4M); underwrite the forward consensus curve, not the trailing multiple.
Business-scope caveat: the power-generation JV and CCUS ambitions referenced qualitatively in §1/§4 do not appear as revenue segments in this data pull and are treated as unquantified optionality, not earnings.
Peer caveat: the FMP-supplied peer list is a size-matched grab-bag (includes tanker owners); judge BKV against pure gas E&Ps (EQT, Range, Comstock), which are absent from the supplied set.
Not investment advice. Independent research, educational and informational only, never personalized. Hypothetical/forward figures are labeled; the only performance numbers Synthos will headline are the live, real-money Flagship's.
Version: 2026-07-06. Prior versions available via the deep-dive version dropdown ("based on the info at the time").